When They're Not Over Their Ex: A Lesson In Empathy (2024)

Thank you so much for your blog! You have helped me so much! Sadly, I discovered that I am the unavailable one, since it is the one thing that all of my exes said about me and most of them, also had as an issue.
I am seeing a therapist in two weeks time and really, I got the courage to call also thanks to your posts.

I want to have a good relationships and I really would love to have some kids in my future. I am turning 30 this year, so I feel it’ s about time.

Right now, I have been dating someone who really wants to be with me and work around his and my issues, but I am too scared that his are too big…his ex, which he had been dating for years, died just two years ago as they were about to make a commitment to each other. So this post nails it. He really acts like he wants to be with me and I am scared (even though he struggles, but I am not Florence Nightingaling anymore, thanks to you).

My priority right now is to be happy with myself. This guy would just be the bonus! 🙂
Life and love are always a work in progress, aren’t they?

Thanks for your wisdom, Natalie! You cannot start to imagine how much you helped me.
Cookie from Germany.

Like someone wildly ringing a bell, this line caught my attention because you don’t do second best. I don’t want to be anyone’s next in line girl.

I don’t remember ever dealing with someone that was not over their ex…………..well there was this one time where after I forwarded a picture of me to a guy a friend had introduced me to via email some years ago, he replied saying he was getting back together with his ex. Now, that may be true or he did not like what I looked like. Oh well. That was over 10-years-ago.

I can completely relate to “What? They’re telling me that they’re not over their ex! We were having such a great time but I obviously wasn’t good enough to make them forget about them. I feel so rejected! I just need some more time to show them!”

Must remember: it’s not about me, it’s not about me, it’s not about me, it’s not about me

“It means thoughts popping into your head when you least expect them that you may feel like you have no control over. It means crying unexpectedly or feeling a sudden surge of anger or a deep wave of sadness.”

Hmm.

Last night I just had quite an enjoyable third date with an attractive, kind guy I met before Xmas. Spielberg movie, flamenco, first smooching and some snuggles. We have plans to meet up again this week.

And then this morning, on my own, I bawled pretty unexpectedly – a good gut cry, had a little moment of the terrors that usually accompany me starting any sexual activity with someone new, and found myself about to relaunch to the other side of the coin of my indifference, i.e. to anxiety.

I feel solid enough about myself, but in absolutely no rush to indicate to this person that I want something long-term. I still feel kind of unavailable, and though thoughts of my ex are still around, I don’t think it’s all about not being over him. I think it’s not totally being over all the bs that had me pursue a relationsh*t (to use Fearless’ term!) with the exAC for so long.

Feeling like it would be nice to just not define anything for as long as it lasts, enjoying each other’s company. Maybe I’ll spontaneously combust into someone who isn’t already thinking, sh*t, he really seems to like me, what have I gotten myself into here?

He’s nice enough that I think, what if over time my feelings deepened for him such that my doubts were overcome? Is there a time horizon for that? He’s also nice enough that I think, maybe if I have these doubts now, I’m (still!) not (effin!) ready, and I need to be kind and not treat this guy to the EU special.

In any event, this is the first physical affection, and first real interest in another person, I’ve engaged in since breaking up with the AC. It’s been sixteen months. And only three dates so far, but yes, the first promising dates in 16 months. It’s okay to explore a bit, I think.

Oh boy I have to say after following you for about six months i’m smitten. I’m a woman who searches high and low for good advice and I just LOVE yours! Direct and no bullsh** if I can be so blunt. We ladies are so good at being, well good girls we forget that being good doesn’t mean being soft.

You tell women who resonate with your words what they need to hear and exactly in my opinion how they need to hear it. Often there is confusion and down right fantasy going on when we are in the flurry of a strong heart beat.
I find you refreshing and very aware. Thank you for telling us your own past behaviors and failings because it certainly shows you’ve earned your stripes.
I hope you will expand on the topics you blog and give women tips on how to navigate the terrain. That would surely pack a wallop i’m sure.

Thanks for being you and the voice of reason when chaos can reign in relationships.
You rock!
Angela

Thanks for this post Natalie. I am actually just grappling with this issue now and talked about it in your previous post.

A quick recap. Met a guy at a wedding about a month ago. I had amazing chemistry with him (haven’t felt this in years). Over the course of the month we went out on three dates. He was always lovely and I felt we really hit it off. We chatted to the wee hours of the morning on our dates. He even took me for a picnic in the park. However, between dates I barely heard from him. He kissed me briefly on the lips on the first date. But nothing afterwards. On our final date a week ago, we were watching a DVD, he put his arm around me. DVD finished. I went to kiss him. He pulled back. He apologised and told me that he was not over his ex-fiance, who he had broken up with for the second time about two months ago. He is from the US, and he’s moved to Australia to live straight after this happened. I’m from Oz. I thanked him for letting me know, and told him I’d still like to be friends.

It actually really cut me up because we got on so well and I was really attracted to him. While it did explain his hot and cold behaviour, I was tormented by the niggling thought that “Yes, he may not be over his ex, but maybe the real reason is that he’s really not that into me.” Why? Because he acts like he is SO happy. He messaged me yesterday telling me what a GREAT time he had over the weekend. It doesn’t sound like someone mourning their ex. And it’s hard to feel empathy for someone who sounds like he is having the best time of his life. But maybe I am being too unfair on him?

Ladies, if I do take him for his word that he is not over his ex, should I:

1) keep in contact with him as friends (with the chance that once he is ready to date, he’ll ask me out again), or
2) go NC, and move on.

I actually did get a little angry last night, and decided I’m not going to chase him. I’m worth more than that. I’m not going to put anyone on a pedestal; and he’s not the last chance saloon (thank you Nat for your wisdom). I’ve actually lined up a date with someone else this Friday, but still wondering whether I should keep in contact with the “not over his ex” guy.

I have the fear that when he is finally “ready” to date, if I’m not in his life anymore, he will ask someone out who is. However, I guess, if he really liked me, he would try and keep in contact with me or at least reconnect with me once he was emotionally available, otherwise it was not meant to be.

Too funny, Natalie! Just recently, after two seemingly fantastic dates loaded with chemistry, laughs, and great conversation, I get the “I’ve got sh*t to work out in my head over my ex but can we be friends” text. My answer: No. Not looking for a friend. Got plenty. Pretty damn sure none of them would show the lack of balls you just did by texting instead of calling.

Later, in the pub with his friends who introduced us, they tell me he said I reminded him too much of his ex in the way I was relating to him, and the particulars weren’t exactly positive. Ladies, don’t them them put THAT bullsh*t on you, either. That’s their stuff, not yours, and is just another form of them not being over the ex. Not over the things they liked, and not over the things they didn’t, either. The key words are “not over.”

Hi everyone, hi Nat (my personal saviour),

I’ve been reading entry after entry for what has been months now (both during and after my EUM nonsense) and to be honest this entry in combination with “Transitionals and rebound” relationships has got my head SPINNING. I was the transitional woman, I was the segway in to a new relationship so he wouldn’t have to be alone (his admittedly BIGGEST FEAR). How did I miss the signs, even when they were blatant? Months in, I found old p*rnographic images and videos on his computer freshly viewed for his entertainment. It made me sick and sent me in to a spiral. In combination with a million other red flags, it all makes sense now. Bright as day. Never again, I will never again allow me to be disrespected. When your EUM looks you in the eyes and tells you he wants nothing more than to be with you, look right back in to his and remind yourself that they are only words. Words MUST MATCH the action. I WILL love, cherish, and respect myself.

My AC was caught up in his ex – called her, infantalised her, lashed out to me about her, but then, of course, dismissed my concerns about their attachment. It was a joke, and one I paid for. I simply won’t be with someone who has regular contact with or seriously unresolved feelings (as distinct from occasional feelings of regret or discomfort) about an ex. And I am often explaining what Nat says here to my sister: that being compassionate is about leaving someone who is afflicted alone, to fully heal, and about protecting yourself and keeping yourself steady so that if someone does need to rely on you, you don’t get caught up in the whirlwind, which is eminently unhelpful.

(BTW, BR pals, seem to have met a very solid guy – the one that I met over NYs – funny, witty and handsome, but, above all, kind, generous and reliable…oh, and he’s being very normal about rolling things out – enough to make me feel desired and supported, but not too much to indicate major emotional issues. Early days, but looking good, and I am relaxed about how it all goes – that is new for me!).

During this period of vetting men I had a drinks date with a man who showed me pics of his ex girlfriend on his iPhone! Now, when a man mentions photos I perk up. Photos are the doorway to his inner world I study them carefully… When did you break up? I asked.
Two years ago, he said.
Say wha? They broke up two years ago but he’s got pics of her on his first page of photos? And of course…she was “crazy”!

Nice to meet you goodbye. I have no time to mop up his tears.

Ladies stop being the emotional nursemaid. If he’s got photos of his ex right on his cell phone he’s not over her.

As a matter of fact if they bring up their ex within the first hour of the date, they’re not over them.

Takes a lot of get over a person. I do believe that 50% of singles should not be dating, working on self-healing.

After reading your (another great) post, I went and googled (I know, I know, bad girl!!! But no danger here – I’m totally over him) this guy’s name out of curiosity. We briefly went out together some five years ago, before finding out he wasn’t over his ex (an ex who btw was only using him as an ego stroke). Luckily, I didn’t stay around, waiting for him to wake up and smell a rat. Well ladies, I got to see a recent convo between the two of them on one of these social media platforms:

Her: “Hello little fish of mine. Sorry for not being in touch! Busy.”
Him: “I thought your computer had been stolen!!!”

Nuff said. DON’T WASTE YOUR TIME.

I got totally future faked and it definitely took a while to see my ex’s still VERY toxic entanglement with his ex wife. He insisted he loved me, wanted to marry me, just needed time to sort a few things out if I could only be patient and understanding and put my needs on hold for a while more… until the very end, when I could no longer overlook the bountiful evidence that by sticking around I was buffering his pain and making it unnecessary for him to take some responsibility for his divorce and take some real steps to heal and move on. I fooled myself for a while there because I, like he, wanted to believe so badly that he was ready to move on. But he wasn’t, and though it still hurts I know opting out was the right decision. I had to tell him to stop calling me and bargaining with me, when there was zero evidence that anything was different. I thought (hoped) maybe he’d take some time to sort himself out and then get in touch once he was in a healthier place, but he didn’t. Perhaps he found another emotional airbag (brilliant term, btw).

I still struggle with having been and having let myself been used in this way, although it took 20/20 hindsight to realize that this is what was happening. In any case, I now know that even if he were the healthiest, happiest person on earth I still wouldn’t want to be with someone who a) runs away from his more difficult feelings b) doesn’t take responsibility for his role in relationship problems and c) is willing to say and do whatever it takes to feel better about himself and get his needs met (regardless of the cost to me). Yuck.

I recently got asked out by a guy I barely know but we have mutual friends. I happen to know (from the mutual friend) that the last girl he dated is filing a restraining order against him because he won’t leave her alone. He doesn’t know I know this. I politely declined but my skin was crawling. It blows my mind that someone that caught up in an ex is asking other people out. He obviously has issues. I feel sorry for the next woman he asks out who doesn’t know the kind of crap this guy is about to heap on her. Yuk.

Years ago I did accept a date from a seemingly nice guy who turned into a basket case on our date, cried and sobbed about his ex (yes, on our date!) and told me about the restraining order she had on him. When I excuse myself from the date, he kept begging me to stay….but he kept calling me her name. CREEPY. Seriously, WTF? Even as he is telling me how messed up he is and still wrecked over his ex, he was asking me to stay. Flush, then flushed again to make sure the turd went down.

Then you’ll think “What? They’re telling me that they’re not over their ex! We were having such a great time but I obviously wasn’t good enough to make them forget about them. I feel so rejected! I just need some more time to show them!”

I love this ^^^ I had epiphany today that I *think* I can shoehorn into this topic – I hope it’s not too much of a prevarication but it might be.

My son’s father wasn’t over his ex, although to be honest he also wasn’t over his childhood, his birth, the invention of the lightbulb and possibly the Big Bang, as far as I can see. Recently (because I have to have him in my life, I endeavour to be friendly, I hate smiling and acting like nothing’s the matter when it is and we’re both a lot more resilient than we were) I had a massive roar at him about how awful he’s made me feel about myself over the last two years. He was sorry and sad and tried to help, but his response was basically “I didn’t mean to do it – it wasn’t about you at all”.

This helped a bit, to be honest, but did lead to a fair few *hmph thoughts along the lines of “well I’m never bloody important to anyone, poor maligned me, unfair life, cursed existence” etc etc etc. Then today I realised – it wasn’t about me but, really, everything that I went through with him wasn’t about him either. He’s nice enough on a good day, like, but he isn’t God.

It’s been about me and MY lack of self-esteem and MY need to prove my worth by winning the love of someone who really wasn’t remotely available and MY issues with my upbringing and the fact that it’s easier for ME to hang all MY issues on one thing/person like a coat-hook instead of going through them, questioning them and sorting them out.

I stayed hung up on him because *I* don’t really believe that anyone else’ll be interested beyond just wanting me for a casual relationship (rubbish, btw, I’m ace). I mourn the loss of our ‘friendship’ because it’s easier than facing up to the fact that the person that I was in that friendship – whilst being damn near to a saint O:) – wasn’t really me and isn’t particularly well-equipped to live life in the real world.

I know that this isn’t the case for everyone (not everyone gets involved with an EUM because they’re EU themselves etc) but it is marvellous to remember that while none of it was about me, none of it was about him, either. Even if it felt like it was.

(Thanks Nat. I have a suspicion that you’re saving me an absolute fortune in therapy!)

Before reading BR, I was of the mindset that the best way to get over someone was to get under someone else… It was interesting to read this post because my Ex AC obviously thinks this way and I’m now the Ex. He started seeing a woman last year after being loyal to me for years of my PTSD/depression/anxiety. I often thought if the roles were reversed, I would have bailed much sooner than he did. When we met over 6 years ago I was the life of the party, independent, long distance runner with a full life. Then Bam – I was an agoraphobic wreck who couldn’t even work and started smoking cigarettes which is something he never would have signed up for in any woman. Anyway, I really couldn’t blame him for wanting a relationship with someone who was mentally healthier but it still hurt like hell and was the beginning of all of the relationsh*t insanity because I let myself be demoted to being the OW and continued having sex with him, etc., while she was now the official gf. He flat out told me that he knew the new woman wanted a relationship that led to marriage as well as other things that led me to ask after they broke up why he was with someone so incompatible. His response was “I just needed to be with someone who wasn’t you.” I’m sure the new gf would have loved that… Apparently, she knew something about me, though, because he told me that she attended an event where I was presenting and actually said to him “I don’t know what you still see in her when I’m so much prettier.” Eww.

Before my breakdown, we had an amazing time together and I know he would still rather have sex with me than anyone else. From conversations with him, he obviously still thinks about what could have been if I hadn’t fallen apart and what, maybe, someday could be again now that I’m getting my life back. He’s clear that he doesn’t have the same feelings to want to be both feet in with me again right now – and I’m still smoking, too, but he’s also clear he doesn’t want to lose day to day phone and in-person contact with me and his hold on the possibility I represent. (Very crazymaking.) The gist is, any unsuspecting woman he romances now is getting an AC who’s now also EU and committed to keeping a foothold in his Ex’s (my) life!

Yes, I’m a man. My ex-wife sent me a link to this site.

My thought is that getting “over it” is aiming at the wrong target. My experience is that nobody ever gets ‘over it’, but we can – and some do – learn to live with it; happily, healthily.

As a young teenager I cut the tip off my left index finger. It is fairly obvious on first meeting someone that I am not entirely whole. Nonetheless, I dont feel particularly unhappy or unhealthy or in any way less than anyone else. I have simply adjusted to that part of my hand not being there, and got on with living.

I would tend towards the idea that emotional ‘issues’ are different but with significant similarities. That the loss of a significant emotional relationship *should* leave a hole, a place where something used to be that isn’t there any more. If it doesnt? … well, that would not be a sign, to me, that the relationship was as significant as I was making out.

(And I am reminded here that it was my ex who taught me my fave celeb line, from Madonna: “Sure, women fake org*sms: Men fake entire relationships!”)

Contextually appropriate disclosure aside, I dont see a great need, or great value, in pretending you’ve never been hurt, never experienced gut-wrenching loss, never monumentally shanked the poodle.

I believe we all live along a continuum of function/dysfunction, and that we should look out for warning signs that the person we’re contemplating is too far in the ‘dsy’ direction for a relationship to work.

But I dont believe you do yourself or anyone else a favour by cutting them off because they’re not some idealised incarnation of “totally over it”.

People who get totally over it strike me as seldom having ever been in it.

Read a few online dating sites. Read how many people disavow any interest in anyone with ‘baggage’.

Contemplate the reality that every real human being HAS baggage.

The emphatically stated desire to live with an idealised – i.e. unreal – archetype of a human being, rather than with a real human being, is sad, scary, and self-destructive.

Let you who are without baggage cast the first Jimmy Choo.

Natalie; I really appreciated this explanation about the difference between empathy and sympathy. Although, I had to read it a couple times to really really get it,lol. I admit there was a time when he and I both decided that we both needed time to sort things out…especially when he was reaching out to me(after I’d achieved 1yr NC & was proud of myself) and I was still not trying to hear him really…but I can say that I did see his attempted to see my side and his attempt to explain somethings to me.

However, I also agree with the thoughts that there is possibly more to what a person is actually grieving at a time; it’s not just solely their current loss(ex-lover/companion/friend/absentee father/) but possibly a number of losses or “compounded pain” from something in their pasts which makes the current loss/any additional losses more profound and almost impossible to overcome at the stage of the final whammy/blow hits(at least that is what I got from it). So basically the current loss( a simple breakup) is really not as deep as it appears(which, I agree, know one actually died this time),but, it’s all the losses combined (previous deaths of loved ones/broken relationships b4 that one, and the one b4 that one, & the one b4 that1.etc.) that a person has to empathize&acknowledged to allow for healing and if possible allow reality to come about for the other person… I agree too!!

I´ve learned this the hard way. My best friend, with whom I´ve had everything (we´ve done everything couples do except the sex for a very long time, then recently slept together), has now cut me off completely (with a strong wish that we meet again as friends in the distant future). So that he´d no longer be holding me back from moving on while he sorts himself out. His breakup – which came out of the blue for him – happened almost two years ago.

I hear you keep saying that he´s just not that special, but in this case he is. He´s not a regular guy, for better or worse. And he´d walk through fire for me. Meeting him has changed how I meet the world and how I experience life, for the better. I love him in a completely different way from how I´ve loved others. Maybe he´s prepared me – I wasn´t over my bad breakup when I met him either – for real love. Maybe he´s cured me of my own emotional unavailability. I just really wish it would be us, someday. And I need to stop wishing for that. He´s cut me off; I think, to let me back in when I no longer wish for that.

He keeps dating, pretty manically, to see if he can find someone that he can fall so madly in love with that he can let go of his fear of commitment, a fear so deep-seated I would be surprised, but happy for him, if he was able to overcome it.

I really wish him all the best, and I´m grateful for what he´s been to me over the past years. But I feel as if I´m suddenly poor, as if the world is blander, as if I´d just been told that this year, January will last for a long time and we don´t know if the summer will come, but we certainly hope it will.

I mentioned earlier that my ex EUM consistently spoke about previous girlfriends and dates. He would say that so many stunning women wanted to date him, or so many gold diggers want to date him but he wasn’t interested. He would mention women that had broken his heart in the past but always end the sentence with “I’m over her anyway” and continue to boast about his accomplishments. Clearly he wasn’t “over her” but this behaviour made me uncomfortable and was one of the many red flags that I failed to act on. I allowed all his talk about previous girlfriends to make me feel slightly insecure because he would always use the words stunning or gorgeous or highly educated. Although he would always say to me your very beautiful I just think he said that to every woman!

My point is, that self esteem is so very important and its the valuable lesson I have learnt with my experience. When I met him I thought I was in a good place (e.g. had healthy self esteem and enough confidence) obviously I wasn’t because at the first sign of his egotistic/narcissistic behaviour I should have flushed him instead of thinking he was the best thing since sliced bread!

I am just so in awe of Yoghurt’s bleeding finger analogy. The literalness of it really gives you clarity. With my last relationship, he talked of the bleeding finger, picked it, flung it around, got blood on me, his kids, took it to bed with us, etc. etc. ad nauseam, and when I said something about it, he asked me to “kiss it”. “I just need you to be compassionate, understanding, loving, I’ve been hurt, blah blah blah …” all the while I’m getting blood all over me. And then when I say “ENOUGH! Stop bleeding on me!”, he was angry!

Never in a million years would I have stood there and allowed this man to fling blood from a gaping wound all over me but figuratively, that is just what he did. Its just as disgusting.